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Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 7:35:53   
Brett Ozanne


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Worrying reading in today's paper, what are people's thoughts on this particular article? It's sure copping stick on other forums as bs? Seems to me, if this has an element of truth to it, we should be acting now, and not ignoring it.

How good an indicator are the tests UWA are doing?


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 7:50:45   
Daniel Mance


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Link

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brett Ozanne

How good an indicator are the tests UWA are doing?



As for that. Hard to say without seeing the UWA original report. The online west report at least is pretty sketchy on details at best.

That said, its based on actual data, which has slightly more weight than many of these people knocking it as BS as you claim, which i'm sure is largely based on opinion....

Anecdotally i can tell you without reservation that Jewy stocks off Bunbury are nothing like they were even 5 years ago. Even tho this year so far has seen reasonable numbers being caught....

< Message edited by Daniel Mance -- 5 November 2008 8:52:41 >


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ORIGINAL: David Adams
I reckon it is a wishy washy decision. Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 7:53:59   
Scott Coghlan


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My response emailed to the West:

Hi Beatrice, I am the editor of Western Angler magazine, WA’s leading fishing magazine since 1985. I am also a freelance journalist, having worked for AAP, The Australian and The Sunday Times. I almost choked on my Weet Bix today when I read the pieces in the West, citing the ‘research’ of Jessica Meeuwig and Jill StJohn. I am not blaming you – you have just reported what they have claimed, but it needs some balance. I consider myself a reasonable man, who takes fisheries management very seriously, and able to see two sides to all stories, if the fish are under serious threat then action has to be taken, and I am sure that the Minister will take appropriate action. BUT...this kind of ongoing diatribe does nothing to further GENUINE debate on Fisheries management in WA. In fact, it harms the process with spurious claims. The video footage, upon which Jessica Meeuwig is basing her assumptions, was very limited and any angler who has chased dhufish knows that you will only catch them (or film them) if you are in the right place. They tend to be residential, do not aggregate in large numbers and need a certain underwater environment to settle. I am sure if an experienced dhufish angler took them to likely spots and got them to set up cameras there, they would see dhufish. It’s all about where the cameras are. For example, the camera that caught the white pointer was in very shallow water at Rotto, you are not going see hide nor hair of a dhufish there. Find a decent lump out in 50m and you’d be much more chance. Dare I say you could actually manipulate placement to prove the no dhufish argument if you wanted. Ten cameras on the North Mole for seven days wouldn’t see many dhuies. And I have in the past heard her boast of about 800 hours of footage, which sounds like a lot, until you break it down per camera, it was about 2 days per camera. Hardly a valid sample. It’s like saying a block is 800 square metres – sounds huge until you realise it is just 40x20. This research is based upon only a few hours of footage which has been used to reach this enormous conclusion. What if conditions just weren’t right for any dhufish to be in that area over the two days? All anglers have had times when spots that have been productive in some trips have been barren on other visits. It’s what fish do. Again, a far bigger sample would be much more compelling. Jill StJohn conducted conducted research when working formerly at the Department of Fisheries suggesting that dhufish died when released by anglers, which was subsequently discredited. If she’s to be quoted as an expert I think readers should know that. To add further perspective readers should also know that both are strong advocates for large ocean closures and no doubt the dhufish is being used to support this objective. Now I am not saying that dhufish are not under pressure and that more management is not needed – quite the opposite is my stance actually. I want to see good, innovative management to protect what is an iconic WA species. However, this management needs to be based on good scientific rationale, with input from those recognised experts in the ways of dhufish. The ill-informed, and dare I say it, biased comments add little towards reaching this goal and aim to engender fear in the wider public, who don’t have the deeper knowledge of the issues dhufish are undoubtedly facing. Did either StJohn or Meeuwig attend the landmark Dhufish Workshop at Murdoch University a couple of years ago? If you would like further information from me, or to have a chat, email me or call me on 0414 685 169. Cheers, Scotty


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 7:58:40   
Daniel Mance


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Yep as i said. Without seeing the original UWA report, its difficult to make a fair and balanced judgement.

Do you know any more of the details Coggers? Or where to find them. Was this the first time this research has been conducted.

That is, were cameras placed at identical locations previously, and fish were more abundant?


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On the v5 revision...
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Adams
I reckon it is a wishy washy decision. Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

(in reply to Scott Coghlan)
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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 9:20:45   
Colin Molloy


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Well put Scotty and good on you for making the time and effort to put some balance in it.

This issue is about to be discussed on 6PR - here's the online link:

http://www.6pr.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?url=http://streaming.mytalk.com.au/6pr


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 11:34:49   
Garry Lilley


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my dive log books say we did see jewies at cathedrals once upon a time but scott....i got your point but.


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 11:38:11   
Scott Coghlan


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quote:

my dive log books say we did see jewies at cathedrals once upon a time but scott....i got your point but.


I am sure the odd dhuie reaches the North Mole each year too Splash, but its not really a spot to seek them out, and I doubt they'd be picked up on an underwater camera there for just a couple of days.


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 11:44:34   
Garry Lilley


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like i said,i got your point.....my point is that cathedrals WAS perfect jewie habitat......a bit unlike north mole....not that the odd one hasnt been pulled in there.


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 12:57:49   
Simon Tocas


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i'm sure there is plenty of accurate scientific methods used in conjunction with the cameras as well as info coming from a number of different sources to back up the "theory of the diminishing dhu". I'm also pretty sure that much support for the theory may have come from no proof or accurate data what so ever.

I can't help to think that ....if we as fisher folk take the stance that the dhues need the serious attention that Jessica Meeuwig and the late Jon Ford etc suggest...and down the track more accurate data proves that the dhuey is, and never has been, under serious threat from over fishing...the  consequence  is that we were restricted in how many we were allowed to catch, how often and even possibly where we were allowed to catch these fish - for, what turned out to be, no reason at all.

If however as fisher folk, we don't act now and the research does infact have substance, i feel the consequences will be far greater than the inconvenience of increased bag restrictions, closure periods and access restrictions.

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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 13:10:45   
Scott Coghlan


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quote:

i'm sure there is plenty of accurate scientific methods used in conjunction with the cameras as well as info coming from a number of different sources to back up the "theory of the diminishing dhu". I'm also pretty sure that much support for the theory may have come from no proof or accurate data what so ever.

I can't help to think that ....if we as fisher folk take the stance that the dhues need the serious attention that Jessica Meeuwig and the late Jon Ford etc suggest...and down the track more accurate data proves that the dhuey is, and never has been, under serious threat from over fishing...the consequence is that we were restricted in how many we were allowed to catch, how often and even possibly where we were allowed to catch these fish - for, what turned out to be, no reason at all.

If however as fisher folk, we don't act now and the research does infact have substance, i feel the consequences will be far greater than the inconvenience of increased bag restrictions, closure periods and access restrictions.


Of course, the camera data collected had nothing to do with fisheries management, but Jessica decided she would reach some conclusions anyway, without anything to compare it against.
Good management, good science and good sense is what is needed as we look to protect dhuies - which is a given - but comments like hers add nothing meaningful, or useful, to the debate, other than fearmongering.
The biggest concern is that the average West reader, who knows little about dhuies, suddenly takes as gospel that they are virtually extinct, largely because of rec fishers.
I am sure dhuies are under pressure, and would always support sensible and effective management measures (log books and tags for me), but not knee-jerk reactions to the blinkered bleatings of the likes of her, with no real science to back her assumptions. 



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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 13:35:21   
Vince Doran


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simon Tocas

i'm sure there is plenty of accurate scientific methods used in conjunction with the cameras as well as info coming from a number of different sources to back up the "theory of the diminishing dhu".


I agree, if the scientists are using video footage alone then that's just stupidity. I once went out with them to help film the WRLobster grounds around here (mid west) and was quite surprised at how little they knew about operating THEIR cameras, forgot to press the record button and didn't know what speed to control the boat at and destroyed a camera in the process, what a frigg'n joke that was.

IMO we should have bans and reduced bag limits in place as soon as possible until more fairdinkum research is undertaken. If our Dhufish are not in danger than there will be more for everyone in the future when the restrictions are lifted and as Simon has mentioned:

"If however as fisher folk, we don't act now and the research does infact have substance, i feel the consequences will be far greater than the inconvenience of increased bag restrictions, closure periods and access restrictions."

(in reply to Simon Tocas)
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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 13:44:37   
Ray Walker


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I could put a camera in Geographe  Bay and never see a Dhuie in 800 hours, but I could put it on the limestone rubble 6 mile off Sugarloaf,in Dec/Jan and you could see 200 in the same time. I only believe the Dhuie is under threat because you are all telling me, but as someone else has poined out ...what if the science ( when ever they get it done ) does say they are in trouble . Therefore lets do something before it gets to that stage. One last point...I dont think the numbers have dropped off alarminly , it's more the ammount of people doing it. Instead of one bloke getting 8 Dhuies (as in time gone by ) you now have 8 people getting 1 each.

PS. As I said to Hal 6 months ago Jessica Meeuwig is very good at her job ( as an allusionist.)

Cheers   Rev.


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 14:05:44   
Terry Fuller

 

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Check out the Marine Futures website http://sponsored.uwa.edu.au/mf/index for all the good goss on the underwater video research. Heaps and heaps of topical stuff on there, regularly updated and expanded.

Then there's the Marine Futures Online Data Centre http://www.marinefutures.info/  I've been watching this for quite a while. Love their approach and the timeliness of it all.

Those two websites are really worth a look, guys, to get the facts straight from the researchers rather than having to rely on those sensational headlines and summaries in newspapers.

Tell me what you think.

TerryF
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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 14:12:58   
Michael Heslewood


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id say its a pretty universal opinion that rec fishers need to do something to reduce our take ............the question is WHAT   and how will that affect the dhufishes ability to be sustained

the wests series of articles is just a public campaign by a few diehards  with an agenda   who want to force a ban /closure on us as the simplest way to achieve the DOING SOMETHING

the idea i believe is to gain enough public support and put pressure on the minister to follow suit in the next round of reviews on this

hopefully  mr moore and his dept will understand their are other ways for this effort reduction to take place .........with acoordinated plan put forward by fishos and the dept etc which  should /could include

1... a demersal licence for all reg boats who chose to fish for em ..linked to log books

2.. a set number of  non reusable tags for dhufish only... per licenced boat with the regos of the boat on them so they cant be swapped etc .this will cap the heavy exploiters of the resource

3 ...a 2 dhufish per boat limit regardless of the no fisherpersons on board

4.. sanctuary zones in key spawning areas to be identified and implemented
release weight to be a mandatory item onboard

the whole theme of rec fishing is to catch a feed and enjoy the experience .....you cant enjoy the experience if you cant go .or the timing is dangerous or prohibitive to you participating at all ...such as all summer ..this should be considered along with that old chestnut of the precautionary principle ........ most of us recognise that once implemented closures will never be repealed ...........and effort reduction can be acheived in other ways

i dont think many metro  rec abalone fishers think the season is fair or just with stocks in a reasonable shape ........same applies to the shark bay snapper .closures there are still to be reviewed .even though the local RFAC members are asking fisheries to do so ...........

i hope the minister listens  to the facts and gives this subject the due depth of  investigation it deserves .
hezzy

< Message edited by Michael Heslewood -- 5 November 2008 15:21:44 >


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RE: Dhuie Stocks : Today's West - 5 November 2008 15:51:34   
Ray Walker


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Good to see ya held your own against those bullies on the other channel Scotty.. Well done on your media work as well .

Cheers   Rev.



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