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Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ?

 
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Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 10 January 2007 22:43:21   
Stephen Brown

 

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Hey guys, caught a few skippy last weekend and dispatched them by Iki Jimi. First time using this method and we then put them immediately onto ice slurry. Had them later for dinner and I noticed they seemed to have a rather strong fishy taste - I thought stronger than normal.

Have others found the IJ method affects the flavour like this, or not ? I've read this method causes the blood to retreat from the flesh to the vital organs, and if anything the flavour of the flesh should be better with IJ.

Previously, we used to bleed them very carefully before putting onto ice slurry and did not really notice a strong taste. It is possibly a seasonal thing, maybe related to the fishes diet at this time of year or something else, but I'm interested what others have found ?

Thanks and tight lines.......
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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 10 January 2007 23:30:14   
Jamie Chester


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Iki then bleed.

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 6:55:05   
Terry Fuller

 

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Stephen

You'll get lots of argument about what I'm going to say.

But my challenge to anyone who wants to get into theory of why you should not gill and gut fish, (bacteria, etc) or say that "the commercial fishermen never do this", is:-

Do one fish the way I'm saying, and another fish - same species, caught same time the other way(s), and then do a taste test - and which ever way you prefer - that's best for you.

For fish like skippy, herring, salmon, tailor, trevally, queenfish, etc, I always bleed fish as soon as they are caught, scale and gut and gill them, and then put them on ice as soon as possible.

I'm a shore based fisherman where this is easier than in a boat.

The difference this makes to the flesh for such species is so obvious in the look and taste comparison.

Fish like these all have distinctive and sensational tastes. Try cooking some with skin on - reason for scaling ASAP.

And yep, species like these which have spent time with their guts in on ice in a fish shop are cr@p in comparison.

I think that limits the amount of these species that the public will buy. Still, if that stops even more being caught and sold then why would I want to promote any different way for the commercials to treat them.?

But if all else fails, do the "soak in milk" trick. Cut fillets into size for cooking, 12 hours soak in milk in the fridge takes away most unwanted "fishy" flavour - but can't compare with simply looking after the fish from the start.

TerryF
=====

Beavering away in the background......

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 8:26:03   
Paul Micheli


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quote:

Iki then bleed

Yep, and if it still tastes too fishy, try chicken.

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[Deleted] - 11 January 2007 8:43:40   
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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 10:48:54   
Don Tuma


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Re handling freshly caught live tuna (the Scombridae Family). The Japs seem to have perfected a technique that others might do well to copy. Here is the sequence:

1. A live tuna is decked and de-hooked, the gill arches severed and a shallow cut made either side of the caudal peduncle (near the start of the tail fin). This means that the arterial pathways are opened at head and tail.

2. The live tuna is then placed into an open tank big enough to allow the fish to swim while fresh seawater is pumped into the tank causing it to overflow onto the deck and out the scuppers. This allows the fishes heart to pump the blood out of the muscle tissue while actively using the muscles employed in swimming. The amount of blood lost in this way is nothing short of amazing.

3. After 10-20 minutes, depending on how busy the crew may be, the fish or fishes are taken out of the tank. The head is left intact, but the tail lopped off at a point where the tail base is about 2-3 inches in diameter. The head is left on and punctured centrally, slightly above and behind the eyes. A fairly stiff wire about the diameter of a common coat hanger is inserted into the head and fed down along the spinal column sheath that contains bundled nerve endings. This nerve-stripping process causes all kinds of obvious involuntary muscle spasms, the effect of which not only delays the onset of rigor mortis, but diminishes the extent to which it occurs. At this stage the fish is regarded as "moribund" which I suppose is equivalent to being clinically dead or something like that.

4. The fish is then hosed and scrubbed clean with special attention paid to removal of the gill arches and their branchiae. Next is the first stage of the freezing process that removes the latent heat from the fish by contact with an ice-slurry bath. The second stage takes the fish down to -18 C, presumably by air-blast freezing, and the third stage further reduces the temperature to around -30 C. I am told that the quality of such fish when thawed at the central Tokyo fishmarket is unsurpassed.

The best methods of chilling and handling fresh, live finfish is somewhat less involved than for the tunas. Here is the procedure that I would recommend based on observing heaps of commercial fishers at sea:

1. If the fish is large (difficult to handle) don't let it bash itself about on the deck. Organise a killing box or tub of some kind where the fishes head, at least, can be held under water. Cut gill arches and let the fishes heart do the job of bleeding out. Next is the iki-jime trick using a spike or carpenter's awl to penetrate the brain. You'll know from the muscle contractions when the brain has been zapped.

2. Immediatly after iki-jime, place the whole fish into a slurry of freshwater ice and seawater. The usual proportions are 1 part seawater to 3-4 parts flaked or crushed ice.
Leave the fish immersed (covered) in the slurry for 1 to 1.5 hours. This is sufficient to chill the flesh of most species down their backbone. Large, thickset species like rockcod or grouper may take longer. Use a thermometer to check that the slurry temperature is maintained between -1 and 0 degrees Centigrade. Add more ice/seawater as necessary. Don't worry if the slurry is discoloured by blood after awhile, it matters not.

3. After chilling you can pack the whole fish in ice for transport to land or process the fish to whatever stage you wish. If you are filleting or steaking, remember to separate flesh from direct contact with ice by a layer of gladwrap or whatever.
Remember that it is the meltwater of ice that does the cooling, if the ice isn't melting, its not cooling the fish. Drain used meltwater out the scupper while travelling, unless you're into catching sharks.

4. Some species need to be kept separate from others because of their ability to produce endless amounts of mucus or slime even after death which seems to signal the mucus cells to go into panic mode. These guys are best filleted and skinned straight away.

5. I should mention that not all species of fish benefit by the same degree because of having been bled at point of capture. Certainly all pelagic species must be bled and also other swimmers that build up lactic acid in their musculature. I've never seen fishers take the time to bleed estuarine species like whiting, bream, flathead, garfish etc etc. and I doubt whether it would have any affect on the quality of their flesh provided they are otherwise properly handled.







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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 14:37:05   
Andy Woodford


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Dom,

Great Post. Most informative mate.

I've taken notes for future reference.

Now all I have to do is catch somethig

Cheers

Andy

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 15:13:43   
Don Tuma


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Andy, judging by your photo gallery, you're catching some great fish. I've never seen a pike with markings like the one you've caught and I have no idea what species it might be. Maybe you could post the pic to Barry Hutchins at the W.A. museum to see what he can make of it. Your "big whiting" is a Pacific Bonefish - Albula forsteri - has a single dorsal fin, underslung lower jaw and a black snout tip. Not much to chomp on, but said to be the "fastest thing with fins".

Cheers

Don

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 15:25:13   
Jamie Chester


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I'm assuming Andy's whiting caption was tongue in cheek.

The pike is a northern hemisphere freshwater beast.

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 15:54:11   
Don Tuma


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Yes Jamie, I wondered about his smirk when I read his caption re the whiting.
I've just had a look at some photos of Esox species from the Great Lakes region of the U.S. and its probably either E. lucius, the northern pike or E. masquinongy, the muskellunge.
I gotta learn to watch these crafty buggers that sneak these pics into a series of fish from Oz.

Thanks

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 16:19:05   
Ian Moore


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It's E. Lucius Dom. A very common species in British and central/northern European waterways.

Great fish that grows huge in Lakes but the fitter and feistier fish are caught in rivers IMO.
Takes a wide range of lures and dead/live baits and are great leapers on light tackle. I've got a heap of photo's but no scanner or i would put some up.

Smaller "jack" Pike up to around 4 -5kg's can be a menace if you are fishing for smaller species, quite happily taking your fish on the way in. In the right waters these things grow to 20gk+ but i would be very pleased with anything over 10kg in British waters.

I've spent many a cold winters morning fishing for these great fish.

edit - sorry for derailing the thread

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 16:34:43   
Don Tuma


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Thanks Ian, that sorts out the fish O.K. by me!

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 11 January 2007 18:25:45   
Stephen Brown

 

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Thanks fellas,

some really informative stuff on getting the best from your catch here. Incidentally, had a salmon last year which we took great care to bleed (took a long time !), put onto ice slurry and was quite impressed by the resulting meal. Much better than most of the restaurant fish I've had since then. Only took one late in the season as we had heard the stories of cat food only, which was far from the case.

Steve

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 31 January 2007 21:40:09   
Garry Frayne

 

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I tend to iki jimmi my fish as soon as I get the hooks out, taking care for them not to thrash around on the deck to much so as to bruise any flesh. The throat is cut with a pair of shears and then they are placed in a kill tank full of water (those useless ice melting underfloor jobs). This way the fish bleeds quickly as it convulses (but brain dead) in the water and keeping much of the blood and guts out of the nice clean esky.

They are then fished out after a few minutes and put in a good quality esky full of crushed ice or better still a brine slurry. When thing quiet down they are the gutted and gilled, before being put back on ice.

I'm still not sure whether the IKI Jimi method is better than careful handling and quick bleeding before being put on ice in terms of taste. Possibly a personal preference.

I've done a lot of shooting before and eaten what I shot. I can honestly say those animals that were head shot, tasted less gamier than those heart or lung shot (ie chest shot). The most important factor however was induced stress prior to being shot. that is if the animal saw you or was alerted to your presence in anyway prior to being shot they always tasted gamier and the meat tougher than those that were totally unaware prior to the lights going out. Obviously when an animal is stressed it releases adrenaline which is what I believe gives the gamey taste and can toughen flesh.

Perhaps this could also apply to fish. Ie a quick catch and minimising stress could be the answer. Perhaps a wet rag draped over the eyes whilst removing hooks and preparing for the spike may be beneficial, not to mention shorter fight times using heavier lines (not sure whether the fast accent of fish may adversly effect eating quality too?) to get the fish on board quicker.

The funny thing is when I spear fish (tend to aim for a stone shot, breaking the spine at the base of the skull) the fish always taste better than those taken on line, even when they are left hanging off a float in tropical waters for a while. Perhaps its the fight that effects the eating quality the most. The pros hardly muck around with the tuna for the Japanese market do they?
Food for thought....

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RE: Iki Jimi - how does it affect the flavour ? - 1 February 2007 8:03:32   
Don Tuma


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Garry, I have a couple of comments re some points you have raised.

Firstly, I think that the reason why the Japs and other commercial fishers mostly bleed their catch prior to using ikijime is that they don't want to interfere with the heart's blood pumping ability by scrambling the fishes brain with a spike. I don't know of any research that clearly says one method is superior to the other so I guess as long as the fish is completey bled-out, the choice is a matter of personal preference.

Your comments about flavour of flesh of fish (or game) being impaired by a fear-induced shot of adrenalin that increases the heartbeat rate is linked to what follows as the fish struggles against capture, whether in a net or on the end of a line.

As muscles are put into overdrive mode, they produce lactic acid as a waste product of energy production. The increased blood supply to muscles is often insufficient to remove all of the lactic acid produced. We suffer from sore muscles after strenuous exercise for the same reason.

So you are right when you imply that it may be great sport to fight a fish to the point of its exhaustion (if not your own), but the price paid for this may be measured in the amount of lactic acid trapped in muscle tissue even after the fish has been bled-out.

The Japs land a lot of dead tuna, billfishes etc. when they tend their longlines. They do their best to flush as much blood as possible from these fishes by inserting deck hoses where they might force blood from the carcass, but the damage has been done and these fishes will be downgraded at the market where buyers taste the raw flesh before they buy. Any hint of the "metallic" taste of blood laced with lactic acid may render them unsuitable for good quality sashimi.

I guess that the only way to overcome the lactic acid demon is to transfer live stressed fish to an enclosure until their metabolic processes are restored to normal, then bleed it quickly. Very expensive!

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