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LSD & Roluxes

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LSD & Roluxes - 7 November 2003 7:41:16   
Joe Stadler

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: South Hedland, West Australia
Status: offline 		In a fit of spiteful rage I have started to consider new ways of getting what little power my Rolux has to the ground 9and new ways of spending all that money I dont really have). My first impulese is to go screaming to ARB and get an Air Locker Diff. After 3 seconds of rational thought I looked for cheaper options.

My question to you wisened readers "have you ever swapped a stock diff for a limited slip diff?". I have heard of the rev heads swapping out the salisbury diffs on Commodes for 9" Blue Oval items. So someone has done it before. Is it as simple as replacing diff centres or are new axles going to be required?

My requirement for a potential new diff has arisen due to the tendency of the Rolux to get bogged a bit too easily in the soft stuff (yes I know about air pressures but pumping up tyres takes for ever). I am also finding myself bouncing down dry creeks filled with large rocks. Wont be long before I am left high and dry with a front and rear wheel inthe air (I know LSD probably wont help too much there).

All comments appreciated.

Stads
Post #: 1
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 10 November 2003 10:08:40   
Frank Nicol

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: Kununurra WA
Status: offline 		G'day Joe

I'm not that experienced but from the few times I have helped change diffs (as a result of mates with V8's), that is when we have changed the type of diff, we have had to change the axels as well. that is due to the fact that the new centre didn't fit in the old housing, and thus a new housing and axels were required. I don't however know if this is the case alll of the time.

Good Luck

Frank Nicol

(in reply to Joe Stadler)
Post #: 2
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 10 November 2003 11:20:06   
Mick Barson


Posts: 4405
Joined: 27 July 2003
From: Around the corner, Western Australia
Status: offline 		Stads,

My advise with 4wding is try not to get bogged in the 1st place and the main reason people get bogged is they dont drive according to the conditions and if that means having to let air pressures down thats what u gotta do, no fitting of locking diffs or long travel suspensions are going to be as benificial as lowering [15psi as an example] tyre pressure & driving in the correct gear. If you have the engine bay space look at fitting a small sanden A/Ccompressor for an air pump, very fast for air ups.

A locking diff will definately help give you better traction, but can also get you further in the pooh before you stop requiring an even more difficult extraction. I have F&R airlockers and very happy with them but not cheap, you could look at the Lock Rites , not as strong as an airlocker but for majority useage will do a good job.

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Baldy

Member #23 OFW
Official Grey Nomad.
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(in reply to Joe Stadler)
Post #: 3
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 10 November 2003 15:20:26   
Neil Daws


Posts: 4672
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: Panda land
Status: offline 		Have a look at the Gleason Torsan worm drive differential for hiluxes to suit rear diffs only..

They come out of Queensland somehwere..

GTs are in all the time though I am informed the worm drive requires a little more maintenance than usual.

Have a read about their capabilities

Instead of being locked they compensate wheel turn oncorners so that traction is perfect the whole time

Put them on the front diff and they will attempt to compensate taking the vehicle straight if you get my picture. Not a good thing.

< Message edited by Neil Daws -- 10 November 2003 15:13:39 >

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Post #: 4
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 10 November 2003 17:26:21   
Trevor Tucker


Posts: 175
Joined: 4 August 2003
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		Is that like a detroit locker Neil?

(in reply to Neil Daws)
Post #: 5
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 10 November 2003 19:07:51   
Neil Daws


Posts: 4672
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: Panda land
Status: offline 		It doesnt have a locking mechanism as both wheels operate so that traction is applied even at all times even in corners in unison.

While Im no motoring guru, Detroit lockers apparently spin the wheels at the same speed all the time cuasing the tyres chirp when cornering.

From memory 10 years ago they were about $1500 a pop installed?

www.torsen.com

Diagram - pdf - 2 min download

< Message edited by Neil Daws -- 10 November 2003 19:04:46 >

_____________________________

snapping shrimp produce a type of sonoluminescence from a collapsing bubble caused by quickly snapping a specialised claw. Light produced is of lower intensity than the light produced by typical sonoluminescence and is not visible to the naked eye

(in reply to Trevor Tucker)
Post #: 6
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 11 November 2003 9:21:54   
James Yorath


Posts: 419
Joined: 28 July 2003
From: Australind, Western Australia
Status: offline 		You only use lockers when on low traction surfaces, not on the bitumen and definately not at high speed. They are really only good for gaining traction when wheel spin is possible, like when you are climbing a really bumpy track and a wheel gets airborne unintentionally or in some sand situations. But on sand nothing will be as effective as lowering your tyre pressures. I can get my 75series on and off the beach at 18psi in high range two wheel drive (effectively only one wheel driving!).

Sorry Stads, I don't know much about swapping the diff centres for LSD's but you'd be better off on a 4WD forum like ... Australian 4WD Monthly ... ARB usually make their lockers to slip right in but I've never heard of LSD's that will do the same? Someone there may know.

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(in reply to Neil Daws)
Post #: 7
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 11 November 2003 22:41:55   
Neil Daws


Posts: 4672
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: Panda land
Status: offline
quote:

You only use lockers when on low traction surfaces, not on the bitumen and definately not at high speed


James I think the odd locker is installed on high performance drag vehicles for maximum grip..

I seen a GT Falcon chirp as it went round a corner one day with one installed..

Great way to wear out tyres

_____________________________

snapping shrimp produce a type of sonoluminescence from a collapsing bubble caused by quickly snapping a specialised claw. Light produced is of lower intensity than the light produced by typical sonoluminescence and is not visible to the naked eye

(in reply to James Yorath)
Post #: 8
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 13 November 2003 14:02:25   
Frank Nicol

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: Kununurra WA
Status: offline 		Definately right Neil

The odd drag ca does use diff lockers, probably more that the odd drag car in fact. In reality they are just 4wdrivers, they only want them for more grip. Good for burnouts as wel, if you are inot that sort of thingl

(in reply to Neil Daws)
Post #: 9
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 14 November 2003 23:18:10   
James Yorath


Posts: 419
Joined: 28 July 2003
From: Australind, Western Australia
Status: offline
quote:

I think the odd locker is installed on high performance drag vehicles for maximum grip..


True, but drag nuts are well known for breaking expensive parts in the name of fun ... so are some hard core 4WD nuts too, of course! I still stand by my statement though, you will break or bend something expensive if you use your 4WD lockers on bitumen.

_____________________________

"The answer to life's problems aren't at the bottom of a beer bottle, they're on TV."
Homer Simpson.

(in reply to Frank Nicol)
Post #: 10
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 17 November 2003 15:16:30   
John Mathewdakis


Posts: 58
Joined: 1 November 2003
From: Perth, W.A.
Status: offline 		G'day Stads,
It was proven in a recent comparison that Lockers have only a marginal advantage over open diffs in the sand. The comparison included air lockers , lsd, and lock rite lockers. The results showed the factors to avoiding getting bogged are:
correct tyre pressures ( aprox 15 psi )
momentum
Larger tyres
Selection of correct gear
The problem with lockers is that if you do get bogged, it's a beauty. They also put a lot of strain onto the rest of the driveline components. The experts say to drive in hi-range 4wd. I drive in 2nd or 3rd low range because my car's peak power is at 4200rpm so I like to stay close to that range. Not only that, but if I hit a really soft patch of sand I actually have a gear or two to change down to. Hiluxes are known to be a bit gutless so I suggest you spend a fraction of the cost of a locker and do some engine work. eg make it breathe a bit better and a set of headers. What you really need is torque.
If you drive on other terrain as well, then a locker would make life a lot easier for you. The advantage of a lock rite is that it operates automatically. You don't need to engage it your self, you simply install it and forget about it. Air lockers are great but I've seen guys forget to engage them until its been to late, and remember that you should disengage them when turning. they will not disengage automatically.Last thing you want to do is find traction around a bend and snap an axle. Then you have the other extreme, Detroit lockers and mini spools. These permenantly lock the axles together, hence the squeeling around corners.

Hope this helps

ps. 4wd systems makes an automatic diff lock called Lokka.
$646.00 each. So for under $1300.00 you can get front and rear lockers. A lot simpler and far more durable than lsd. www.4wdsystems.com.au

(in reply to Joe Stadler)
Post #: 11
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 17 November 2003 16:18:02   
Trevor Tucker


Posts: 175
Joined: 4 August 2003
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		Excellent post John. I always have trouble getting my head around how diffs operate. One question. If a detroit locker is permanently locked, how do they enable you to turn?

Trev

(in reply to John Mathewdakis)
Post #: 12
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 17 November 2003 16:39:54   
Mick Barson


Posts: 4405
Joined: 27 July 2003
From: Around the corner, Western Australia
Status: offline 		G'Day Trevor

Check out Diffs for Dummies

it explains a few things on how diffs work and what types.

_____________________________

Baldy

Member #23 OFW
Official Grey Nomad.
"maximus respectus"

This is Australia, Land of stick it up ya mates.



(in reply to Trevor Tucker)
Post #: 13
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 18 November 2003 15:07:31   
John Mathewdakis


Posts: 58
Joined: 1 November 2003
From: Perth, W.A.
Status: offline 		G'dy Trev,
If a vehicle spent it's time going in a straight line, a diff would not be required. The reason for this is that both wheels would always spin at the same speed. However, Introduce corners and things change. Basically if you turn left the right rear wheel has a lot more groud to travel and so must rotate faster than the left wheel.Whereas the left wheel has much less ground to travel and rotates at a lower speed.Without a diff the left wheel would try to slow the right one down, and the right wheel would try to speed the left one up. Putting a lot of stress one tyres and driveline components. Not to mention difficult steering. The wheels need to rotate at differential speeds. Hence the name. The differential
(diff) allows this to happen by a set of planetary gears in the diff housing.
Detroit Lockers are nothing like diff locks. Diff locks and lsd will engage in a straight line and disengage around corners. They use cones, clutches, and springs to achieve this. Serious racers don't want complicated setups in their cars due to reliability issues. Many drag racers in ,you guessed it , Detroit started to weld the planetary gears together to achieve this. They didn't care about going around corners, just getting down the 1/4 mile as quick as possible.
This is not for street use. I know of one guy who welded the front diff of his 4wd. It works really well as long as the front hubs are free when on the road. And you really need power steering because its a pig when trying to turn. It always runs wide when turning.

Hope this helps trev.

(in reply to Trevor Tucker)
Post #: 14
RE: LSD & Roluxes - 18 November 2003 16:20:49   
Trevor Tucker


Posts: 175
Joined: 4 August 2003
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		John

Does that mean you can only have a Detroit locker on the front?

Trev

(in reply to John Mathewdakis)
Post #: 15
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