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RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 15:27:54   
Ian Fowler


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quote:

Slightly different around Ningaloo I guess with the leases,


How are the lease holders going up around Mauds and the like????????

I heard some ''rumours'' that areas of their leases have not been re-allowed??

Between Gallop Grab and Native Tital, our ''Big West'' is rapidly heading towards Tassy status!

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(in reply to Ken Lindsay)
Post #: 61
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 17:54:23   
Mick Barson


Posts: 4405
Joined: 27 July 2003
From: Around the corner, Western Australia
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I can see Dr Gallop writing a book in the very near future.


How to lose votes and influence people.


I wont bother to buy it cos I know the ending............





Edited Mr to Dr.








< Message edited by Mick Barson -- 6 December 2004 21:14:53 >


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Baldy

Member #23 OFW
Official Grey Nomad.
"maximus respectus"

This is Australia, Land of stick it up ya mates.



(in reply to Ian Fowler)
Post #: 62
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 19:40:30   
Peter Luobikis


Posts: 757
Joined: 20 February 2004
From: Oakford WA
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I am even more p.....d off now with the use of public funds (our taxes) to promote this on the radio. promoting us as the reef damagers and yet the precious divers can still anchor.

This is all too much, prompting me to send my umteenth message to our precious govt.


quote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Luobikis
Sent: Monday, 6 December 2004 11:57 AM
To: wa-government@dpc.wa.gov.au
Subject: Ningaloo closure
Importance: High


I object strongly to use of public funds to promote the planned
closures of recreational fishing at Ningaloo on the radio as I have
just heard.

The consultation process was a complete farce as Recfishwest (our
voice) and Fisheries WA were completely ignored. The process closed
on a friday and the announcement made on the Monday who are you
kidding? Fisheries WA made it very clear there was no scientific
basis for this decision. of the 5600 submissions over 5000 were from
the green supported 'Save Ningaloo' group who are also stating
incorrectly that recreational fishers support this closure, an
outright lie.

The use of public funds (our taxes) to promote this closure on radio
or any other media is an infringment on our rights to pursue our
chosen recreational activity. Which I do with all care to the
environment play in and enjoy including catch and release and
involvement in tagging and WA university fishing research programs
and volunteer sea rescue.

This radio advertising should cease immediately as it is completely
misleading to state this proposal is in any way supported by the
recreational fishing community in this state. Represented by 645000
people (mostly voting public).


_____________________________

Cheers
Peter
"Rather be fishing"


(in reply to Ian Stagles)
Post #: 63
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 20:19:37   
Dick Pasfield


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From: Kununurra Western Australia
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There is certianly a great deal of satisfaction by going here - www.saveningaloo.org (as Terry says click on the clown fish) and expressing your frank and ernest views to our premier. try it....works for me.


Regards Dick

_____________________________

Facts are negotiable, perceptions are absolute rock solid.

(in reply to Peter Luobikis)
Post #: 64
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 21:16:52   
Mick Barson


Posts: 4405
Joined: 27 July 2003
From: Around the corner, Western Australia
Status: offline
quote:

expressing your frank and ernest views to our premier. try it....works for me.



I dont know a Frank or a Ernie but i gave Dr Gallop my views.



_____________________________

Baldy

Member #23 OFW
Official Grey Nomad.
"maximus respectus"

This is Australia, Land of stick it up ya mates.



(in reply to Dick Pasfield)
Post #: 65
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 21:18:57   
Brett Flugge


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From: Riverlands, Stakehill
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Bring on February 19. I can't wait.

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OFW Member No. 50

Baity

(in reply to Dick Pasfield)
Post #: 66
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 21:42:58   
Wayne Barber

 

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From: Exmouth, Western Australia
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For the benifit of us bush apes can you city folks give us the guts of the radio advert that the govt are spending our dollars on? Nobody up this way has heard it. Wonder why?

Ali

(in reply to Brett Flugge)
Post #: 67
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 6 December 2004 22:05:16   
Terry Fuller

 

Posts: 2433
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From: Hamersley, Western Australia
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Quotable quotes from the www.saveningaloo.org website. Read them all together plus stuff I haven't copied and look at the big picture and the inconsistencies and stretching the arguments and overstating of the case in the stories.....

There's still a lot of focus and arguments against the previously proposed resort and marina at Coral Bay, even though that's also had a "Geoff" done on it....

Which of these impacts is caused by recreational fishing? Where is the control of the other impacts in the increase of the sanctuary zones in the plan for the Ningaloo Marine Park?

"In near pristine condition, Ningaloo supports a staggering abundance of fish (500 species), corals (300 species), molluscs (600 species) and many other marine invertebrates. "

"..populations of large game fish including sailfish and marlin abound in the reef's waters. "

"These mammals, threatened by overexploitation and destruction of their Indo-Pacific habitat find a safe and healthy marine habitat at Ningaloo."

"With 80% of the world's coral reefs in serious decline due to human influence, the isolated Ningaloo Reef is of particular international importance. "

"The fish species in the Ningaloo reef area are incredibly varied and abundant, with about 500 species, this is because of the undisturbed, isolated state of Ningaloo."

"We've seen the gradual death to coral life on the Great Barrier reef,"
(see below) "well, Ningaloo reef is even closer and more accessible and thus far more vulnerable to human impacts. Despite the best intentions, corals will be affected by boating activities and mooring, and trampled by people reef walking.

Seagrass is vulnerable to changes in the water quality, such as increased turbidity and nutrient enrichment, and to damage from boat anchorage thus the seagrass beds are at risk of depletion."

"Hidden from view beneath the arid exterior of Cape Range peninsula lives an extraordinary collection of cave-dwelling and aquatic animals found nowhere else in the world.... "
(that's on the land) "Ningaloo Reef is an essential part of the Cape Range 'karst' system - comprised of limestone caves and aquifers.

"It has been found that the density of turtles in Ningaloo Marine Park exceeds the highest densities of turtles that have ever been recorded in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park area (Preen et al, 1997). This high density has partially been attributed to the particularly clear waters of the area (Preen et al, 1997)."

"The major threats that whales and dolphins will be susceptible to with the completion of the proposed Maud's Landing development will be collisions with boats, ingestion of litter, entanglement, and the pressures of more people wanting to see them. These are all wild creatures, therefore an increased people presence and the resulting noise may stop them from entering into Bateman Bay. This could have unforseen consequences on the mothers and calves that use Bateman Bay as a resting point in their long migration.

The increased number of boats in Bateman Bay will increase the likelihood of cetaceans being hit. It will also increase litter levels in the water, creating the potential for the mammals to ingest plastics, a possibly fatal action. Dolphins and whales are also very susceptible to entanglement in fishing lines and nets, which could also be fatal.

An increased number of tourists in the area will mean a greater number of commercial whale watching operators and tours. This has the potential to disturb the natural patterns of these creatures, and may cause them to avoid the area altogether.

Whales and dolphins are an important part of the ecosystem of the Ningaloo area. They add to the biodiversity of the system and enrich people's experiences. If they are driven out of the area, both nature and people will suffer a great loss.
"

From http://www.amcs.org.au/issues/ningaloo/ningaloo_status/ningaloo_status.htm - it's dated 2000

"Predictions were made in 1992 that in 10 to 20 years, another 30% of the worlds coral reefs could be added to the 10% that were effectively destroyed, if urgent management action was not implemented. While these figures appeared alarmist, recent events show that they may be conservative. In the early 1990s, there was little organised monitoring to observe reef decline and to determine the causal relationships.

Those dire predictions appeared extreme until the 1998 mass bleaching event struck; an event not anticipated in 1992. Many remote pristine reefs were devastated from shallow waters down to depths exceeding 30 metres. Hopefully these reefs are not destroyed and will recover if severe bleaching events do not become regular occurrences.

If predicted rates of greenhouse gas emissions continue and these are confirmed as the trigger for global warming, shifts in global climate like El Nino-La Nina phenomenon of 1997-98 will recur with increased severity and frequency. Coral reefs which are recovering, will be set back by recurring bouts of coral bleaching and mortality.

The Great Barrier Reef (GBR) suffered massive bleaching, which was reported in 1998 as "only around 20%". This percentage is the equivalent of over 500 km of severely bleached reef!
The GBR is now daily loosing kilometres of corals by the Crown of Thorns explosion.
The GBR Lagoon, that bit of water between the East coast of Oz and the GBR, is very contaminated by: massive amounts of sediments from coastal mis-management; massive amounts of fertilizers from grazing lands and agriculture; large amounts of pesticides from agricultural run-off; massive amounts of nutrients and heavy metals from urban stormwater run-off; large amounts of heavy metals from industry effluent; massive amounts of sewage; etc. etc, ad nauseum.

The impacts of these are evidenced by:

the collapsing of fisheries (which were further helped by over-exploitation) off Qld & NSW;
Massive fish kills in many coastal rivers in the east coast;
prawns contaminated with Cooper; sharks contaminated with Mercury, among others, as reported in the 'State of the Marine Environment Report for Australia’, 1996, compiled by Leon Zann;
molluscs, fish and corals in the GBR were also found to have bio-accumulated high levels of cadmium, copper, mercury, nickel, lead and zinc, as per the same report (p.252).
dolphins contaminated with extremely high levels of pesticides in their blubber have also been reported off Moreton Bay, near Brisbane; etc.
"

Now, tick off which of these apply at Ningaloo, and then try to work out:- (if you can)

1. why Ningaloo needs a bigger area of no take zones than the Great Barrier Reef, (other than "mine's bigger than yours, give me the greenie points");

2. why the restrictions only apply to recreational anglers, and not to any other activity which will affect the reef, using the Save Ningaloo campaign's assessments of the threats....

TerryF
=====

There'll be more.....

(in reply to Dick Pasfield)
Post #: 68
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 7 December 2004 2:46:53   
Jamey Ford


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From: Mandurah
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When oh when are we going to get together and form a party that the 643,000+ Recreational Anglers in the state of Western Australia can get behind to push Good News Geoff and his gutless mates out of Gov't whilst sending a message to the Bloody Greens and the Opposition that we are a Force to be reckoned with ! Unless we strike soon all will be forgotten in the Post Christmas wind down [ dont you think Geoff relies on this ] and Mr Gallop, who has chosen to ignore the advice of Fisheries etc in a vain attempt to win over the radical green vote will be re elected. It is all well and good to sit back and talk about this injustice in the various forms of media that are available to us and the Gov't nowadays and pontificate about what we can do , until the interested parties, for example Boating , Charters, Accomodation, Tackle suppliers ,The 3 Magazines etc, get together to give financial support to a Party that has the interests of the Recreational Angler in mind, [ afterall we are their lifeblood ] it is all so much hot air ! that will have no effect on the Gov't , Greens or Opposition . Until we have the Bipartisan support of all the relevant interests in Rec angling nothing will change and in fact it will get worse much, much worse. We must look after our own interests with at least 1 voice [ and hopefully if we can get a significant amount of the 643,000+ Rec Anglers united more than 1 ] in the upper house of WA's Parliament, the powers that be will choose to ignore us , because we cannot make a loud enough noise! Remember the old proverb, United we stand divided we fall , and we will lose access not only to our Reefs and Beaches , but our unique West Australian lifestyle which we all obviously cherish .I am not a Redneck or Anti Conservationist afterall what Angler with any common sense is ! I have been a member of the ALP and always voted Labor but would like not give my vote to Bloody Geoff this time, but what are the alternatives?

(in reply to Terry Fuller)
Post #: 69
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 7 December 2004 12:32:32   
Terry Fuller

 

Posts: 2433
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: Hamersley, Western Australia
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Hansard 26 November 2004 WA Legislative Council http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/web/newwebparl.nsf/iframewebpages/Hansard+-+Daily+Transcripts

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE NINGALOO MARINE PARK, EXPANSION

1110. Hon NORMAN MOORE to the Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:
I refer the minister to the proposed expansion of the Ningaloo Marine Park.

(1) As the minister has indicated in Parliament that he is unaware of any research suggesting that recreational fishing is affecting biodiversity within the park, is the minister opposed to the expansion of the marine park and has that position been put to the Minister for the Environment?

(2) If not, what is the minister’s position?

Hon KIM CHANCE replied:

I thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question.

(1)-(2) This is an interesting scientific question that is difficult to deal with during question time. Suffice to say that there are conflicting views amongst marine scientists about the impact of fishing on the biodiversity of a given area, whether it be a coral reef area, although that is where the concentration of activity has been, or any other area. The science that is available, notwithstanding a degree of conflict of view, which is not unusual because scientists do have different views, has been carefully analysed during the range of processes that led to the establishment of a marine park, but particularly control by the Marine Parks and Reserves Authority. I have been engaged in that scientific debate and my department has also been involved, but the process involving the resolution of marine parks takes account of the conflicting views that are always evident at a time when something of this nature is being constructed. That is not in itself a reason not to do something, and the Government has to make decisions from time to time. We have been through all of this on the forest reservation question. There will always be different ideas about what needs to be done. Our task is to try to analyse them in as effective a scientific manner as we can, in consultation with the community in this case, and by working through those issues. Eventually, we hope to resolve the right question. I hope I have covered the question.

Hon Norman Moore: Are you on Mr Riebeling’s side or against him?

Hon KIM CHANCE: I have been involved in the differing points of view, which add to the diversity of opinion that will lead to an eventual plan being constructed.

==========

For some comments on this statement, See "Inside Cover" in Tuesday's 7/12 West Australian.

TerryF
====

Edit:- Just emphasised the bit "minister has indicated in Parliament that he is unaware of any research suggesting that recreational fishing is affecting biodiversity within the park"

< Message edited by Terry Fuller -- 7 December 2004 13:57:20 >

(in reply to Jamey Ford)
Post #: 70
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 7 December 2004 13:12:41   
Terry Fuller

 

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From: Hamersley, Western Australia
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Is the Premier starting to distance the Government from the details of the decision, and put the reponsibility for this decision on to some other Authority?

Part of the article headed "Ningloo Committee in Disarray" on page 6 in Tuesday 7/12 West Australian said:-

"Premier Geoff Gallop said yesterday that the Government's chief adviser on Ningaloo was the CALM-appointed Marine Parks Reserve Authority.
"I have made it clear, we are going to protect that reef and we are going to protect that park for the future," he said. "The Marine Parks Reserve Authority are our major adviser on that matter and we took their advice."


The report in the West Australian implies that the MPRA recommended increasing the no take area to 34% - an increase of 6% over what was put out for public comments, and the Gov't just took their advice.

"CALM appointed Marine Parks Reserve Authority" isn't right - the reality is the members of the MPRA are selected and appointed by the Minister for the Environment - part of the Government.

AS I said in an earlier post http://www.westernangler.com.au/forum/m_47091/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#47091

"The review of the public submissions is closed and within CALM / MPRA and therefore liable to claims of bias and selective interpretation of the submissions. Who can believe this process delivers what it appears to promise?. Without the process being open, it is not acceptable to many people, and should not be accepted, because it appears to have been misused in the past.

The Indicative management plan can be changed considerably and offered to the Ministers......

The process needs to be changed to require the public release of the summaries of public submissions (that's now) and the version submitted to the Ministers (when it goes, whenever that is) before any version is locked in by gazettal."

So we have got a bit of what I said in that - we know what is proposed before it is submitted to Parliament and applied, and so we have the opportunity to protest and lobby about the decision.

We don't yet know how that decision was made, and anyone who says it doesn't appear that the process has been misused for Ningaloo, well.......

===

Edit:- Update added the part below on 9 Dec.

Following is an e-mail received from someone who has spoken to Barry Wilson. These two interpretations do not align and one of them is not telling the whole story - which one is it?

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:45 PM

"Spoke to Barry Wilson this morning, just thought I would see what he had to say about what has happened. He assured me that MPRA had nothing to do with the extra zones that were put in and said that he only realized that the Winderabandi sanctuary zone had been added as we were talking on the phone.

He also said that he knew the area of Janes Bay was very important for crayfishers and didn't want us to think it had been done on purpose. After telling me that he said that the area in question HAD been identified as one of a number of areas that may be suitable for a sz in the future. True or not that was his story."

====

TerryF
=====

There'll be more.....




< Message edited by Terry Fuller -- 9 December 2004 15:22:11 >

(in reply to Terry Fuller)
Post #: 71
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 7 December 2004 14:01:02   
Paul Rebelo


Posts: 139
Joined: 26 March 2004
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What a mongrel government you turned out to be.
Once bitten, twice shy for me and my family, friends and relatives.

What do you care about conservation? how stupid do you think the public are?
What have you done about the constant polluting of the Swan River. The destruction of
grass meadows and constant spilliage of dangerous chemicals in Cockburn Sound?
I've never been to Ningaloo, but that's not the point.
How dare you take away what's inheritanly ours for you own political agenda.
You've made a deal with the devil.

(in reply to Terry Fuller)
Post #: 72
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 7 December 2004 15:05:26   
Terry Fuller

 

Posts: 2433
Joined: 5 June 2003
From: Hamersley, Western Australia
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Here's part of a statement from the Minister for the Environment.

Judge for yourself how well these words match the reality for Ningaloo. Look at and you decide:-

1. what activities from the list are actually prohibited or controlled in the proposed No Take/Sanctuary Zones? and

2. how much notice was taken of advice from the Department of Fisheries? and

3. how much notice was taken of existing and future fisheries management arrangements for sustainable recreational fishing? and

4. why were there protest resignations from the local advisory committee? and

5. has there been effective inclusion and consultation with recreational anglers?

Quote Minister for Environment:-

"I strongly support coordination between Government agencies, particularly the Department of Conservation and Land Management (CALM) and Department of Fisheries (DoF), and will be seeking to maintain and where possible improve coordination of both planning and marine management functions.

In respect to planning of marine conservation reserves, DoF is closely involved with CALM in these processes and provides information to support planning, and advises how the establishment of marine conservation can complement existing and future fisheries management arrangements.

In respect to marine conservation reserves, DoF and CALM collaborate in respect to management across authorisations of Government officers, and sharing of Government vessels to undertake management and compliance duties."


and

"I note that it is claimed on page 2 that recreational fishing is "held accountable for almost all the threats to biodiversity conservation with new marine parks impacting almost exclusively on recreational fishing activities".

To the contrary, threats to biodiversity are recognised as coming from a number of pressures including inappropriate tourism, mining and petroleum activities, shipping, coastal development, commercial fishing, pearling and aquaculture, introduced pests, point source and diffuse forms of pollution, as well as inappropriate recreational activities including fishing. I am also aware that, undertaken sustainably, these activities have major economic and social benefits."


and

"The Government will continue to support planning processes that provide for effective inclusion and consultation with all key stakeholders....

I am committed to the position that local community views should be a priority consideration in marine reserve planning processes. However, I have requested the Marine Parks and Reserves Authority to look at options for improving the marine reserve planning process.


========

TerryF
=====

There'll be more.....

(in reply to Paul Rebelo)
Post #: 73
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 7 December 2004 15:26:06   
David Adams


Posts: 3189
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From: Sth of River, Western Australia
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I had a call from a person in Exmouth this morning advising that the town was very angry about this decision. A petition has been circulating and within a few days have already collected around 500 signatures. The resignations of the people on the Coral Coast Parks Advisory Committee should be a wake up call to Geoff Gallop. I know Ron Campbell (see page 7 of today's West) and he is a good bloke very knowledgeable about both fishing and tourism.

I take my hat off to Peter Rodgers from DoF. To come out publicly and criticise a decision made by the premier is risky. In our organisation we call it a CLD. Career Limiting Decision. He is publicly supporting his own department against CALM and the premier. Thanks Peter.

I notice also that Alannah might be having second thoughts about the disastrous placement of the Monck Head launch ramp at Coral Bay.



_____________________________

The best way to deal with temptation is to yield to it

(in reply to Terry Fuller)
Post #: 74
RE: Gallop Screws Fisho's - 7 December 2004 15:43:21   
Che Carson


Posts: 70
Joined: 18 February 2004
From: Bluewater Scarborough, Western Australia
Status: offline
quote:

I have requested the Marine Parks and Reserves Authority to look at options for improving the marine reserve planning process. (Judy Edwards, Labor Minister)


Do they have the power to sack Judy Edwards? Or is that to be left to the voters?

If Barry Edwards (Chairman of MPRA) and Chris Simpson (Manager, Marine Conservation Branch) are to take the Minister's request seriously, best they first apologise to West Australians, and then resign. That would be an immediate improvement.

_____________________________

If you are going to smoke USE AN ASHTRAY, if there isn't one available DON'T SMOKE!

(in reply to David Adams)
Post #: 75
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